MAPS: DIGEST: Re: Niacin and LSD

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Contributions from Valerie Gremillion <valor@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Evan L Petee
<epetee@xxxxxx>, John Lolis <DrBombay@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Arturo R. Archiga
Mantilla" <elefante@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, and "Karl Shikles"
<k.shikles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 

-------------
From: Valerie Gremillion <valor@xxxxxxxxxxx>

>>>I don't recall exactly where the information about niacin utilization for
>coming down from LSD came from. 

I believe the original research was done by Abran Hoffer in Canada, who
worked on niacin and schizophrenia as well as testing niacin and niacinamide
for bringing down trippers. i can't recall which research was which, 
but they safely used doses of up to 6 grams. 
	to bring down a bad-tripper, probably start at 1000-2000 mg and
supplement with additional if it hasn't worked. the person will markedly
calm down and eventually sleep. 

The mechanism for this (i hypothesize, i don't think it's been explicitly
published) is that niacinamide activates the 'valium' (benzodiazepine) 
GABAergic receptor. it is low affinity but clearly sufficient at high
doses. it is not felt as a 'drug' however but as a natural state of more
calm and less anxiety. 

some refs are below.

valerie

----------
REFS

Neurosci Lett 1983 Sep 19;40(1):51-4 

Actions of 6-aminonicotinamide on benzodiazepine receptors in rat CNS.

Morgan PF, Stone TW

Since nicotinamide, 6-aminonicotinamide and harmaline can modify the ability of 3-acetylpyridine to cause CNS lesions,
and nicotinamide and harmane alkaloids have been proposed as ligands at the benzodiazepine receptor, we have
examined the effects of these agents individually or in combinations on [3H]diazepam binding to rat cortex membranes.
No interaction was observed between any of the compounds, but 6-aminonicotinamide is over 100-fold more potent
than nicotinamide in displacing diazepam. 

PMID: 6314203, UI: 84040485 


Other Formats:   
Links:  

    Order this document 

Pharmacol Biochem Behav 1981 May;14(5):589-93 

Nicotinamide, inosine and hypoxanthine, putative endogenous ligands of
the benzodiazepine receptor, opposite to diazepam are much more
effective against kynurenine-induced seizures than against
pentylenetetrazol-induced seizures.

Lapin IP

Nicotinamide (NAM, 1000 mg/kg), inosine (INS, 1000 mg/kg), hypoxanthine (HXT, 500 mg/kg), putative endogenous
ligands of the benzodiazepine receptor, and nicotinic acid (NA, 500 mg/kg) diminished DL-kynurenine-(DL-K, 50
micrograms ICV) induced seizures in C57BL/6 adult male mice and only prolonged the latency of pentylenetetrazol
(PTZ, 500 micrograms iCV) seizures. The same effect was previously observed when PTZ was administered IP. In
albino male BALB/c and SHR (bred from Swiss) mice only NA was effective against DL-K. Diazepam in a dose of 0.5
mg/kg prevented PTZ-induced seizures in half of the animals but even in dose of 10 and 20 mg/kg it was ineffective
against DL-K. When injected ICV NAM (1 and 10 micrograms), INS (10 micrograms) and HXT (10 micrograms)
prevented seizures induced by DL-K and were ineffective against seizures induced by PTZ. It is suggested that if NAM,
INS and HXT are of functional importance in the central nervous system, they can act as antagonists of endogenous
brain kynurenine. NA and NAM are suggested to be functional feedback inhibitory regulators of the kynurenine
pathway of metabolism of tryptophan. 


HOFFER WEB PAGE: 
http://www.alternativedocs.com/hoffer/hofferbio.html



--------------
From: Evan L Petee <epetee@xxxxxx>

At least in the lab, a calcium channel blocker (nimopidine) was shown to
block the effects of LSD (at least the effects they looked for), according
to an abstract on Medline. Whether this works in people, I dont know.

Happy day,

-evan
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Peter Webster wrote:
> 
> R: And then we did another one on blocking LSD. We loaded the subject with
> different substances to see if we could block the action of the LSD. We
> failed in a number of cases, but two outstanding cases were that high doses
> of niacin blocked LSD and--this was a surprise--high doses of progesterone
> were a buffer against LSD.
> 
> I: Large doses of niacin blocked LSD?
> 
> R: Large doses, yes. I think a thousand or two thousand milligrams.
> 

------------------------
From: John Lolis <DrBombay@xxxxxxxxxxx>

>"Perf. Fungi E." wrote:  > >I'm sure that translated just perfectly onto
everybody's monitors.  Niacin is >characterized by a flushing and burning
sensation, much like sunburn, that >starts at the top of one's head and
slowly travels down the body, dermatome by >dermatome, passing in a few
minutes.  It's not pleasant, though no more >unpleasant than sunburn, but
is unpredictable and not dose related.  However, >another side effect of
niacin is to lower both LDL (the "bad" cholesterol)  and >VLDL, and it is
for this that it is usually prescribed.  > >Niacinamide has neither the
flushing nor the cholesterol-lowering effects of >niacin, so it is this
form that is usually given for niacin deficiency.  >Another name for
niacin is vitamin B3.  > >--Andrew Sewell, M.D. 

The earliest reference I had seen to the use of niacin in bringing down
someone from a bad trip was in Richard Fariña's book, "Been Down So Long
Looks Like Up to Me," published in 1959 I believe.

Coincidentally, I recently happened to be reading about niacin in "Smart
Nutrients : A Guide to Nutrients That Can Prevent and Reverse Senility,"
co-authored by Dr. Abram Hoffer.  Regarding the flushing produced by
niacin, it will supposedly go away with regular doses, as the mast cells
eventually deplete their store of histamine.  This has the added benefit of
decreasing the possibility of anaphylaxis (an anaphylactic prophylactic?),
although I imagine that there is the dangerous possibility of increasing
the severity of an allergic reaction already in progress if niacin is taken
when the mast cells contain a fair amount of histamine.  For an ongoing
regimen using niacin, the idea is to stay on it until the point when the
flushing reaction no longer occurs, then take a week or two off, then back
on again, etc.  As an aside, many years ago I came down with
dermatographia, an allergic skin sensitivity which, looking back on it, was
probably due to taking too much niacin over a long period of time, with no
"off time."  Three weeks on megadoses of bioflavonoids (which block the
release of histamine) alleviated the condition, apparently permanently.

According to Hoffer, niacin has other benefits that niacinamide does not.
It prevents "sludging" in the blood, a condition whereby red blood cells
stick to one another, thereby being unable to travel through capillaries
that require the corpuscles to travel single file through them.  He further
states that it's been shown to be quite effective against arthritis as
well.  Elsewhere, I've also come across reference to the supposed fact that
niacinamide can cause headaches, especially in elevated doses.

All in all, my preference is to take niacin vs. niacinamide, but within the
bounds of a moderate regimen.  Besides, as for me, I find the flushing and
tingling sensation to be pleasantly stimulating.  Does anyone care to
speculate on the effects regular niacin supplementation may have on the
psychedelic experience?

pax, amat, lux.
John Lolis

--------------------------------
From: "Arturo R. Aréchiga Mantilla" <elefante@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I found out that LSD effects can be softened in case of a 'bad trip' (just as
psilocibin's or mescaline's ) by mild tranquilizers, as _Largactil_, _Meleril_
or _Eskazine_  or completely interrupted with 20 mg of diazepam. I wonder if
those kind of doses didn't send the pacient straight to bed; maybe by 'block
the action of the LSD' you meant that niacin thwarted LSD's action at
neurological levels...?

-------------------------------
From: "Karl Shikles" <k.shikles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>One of the richest source of niacine is yeast extract. Beer
> contains a good amount of that and indeed a few strong beers are
> usually enough to stop a bad trip.

If there is any truth to this, would Marmite be a good remedy for an
undesired trip?
For those who are not familiar with British culinary traditions (and if
you're not, I cannot really blame you), Marmite is the brand name of a yeast
extract that is usually put on toast.  I don't know anything about the
manufacturing process, but on the back of the jar, it lists the ingredients
as "Yeast Extract, Salt, Vegetable Extract, NIACIN, Thiamin, Spice Extracts,
Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12."  If it matters, it is about the
consistency of molten tar and tastes something like extremely salty tree
sap - an acquired taste to be sure - one that might not be ideal to shove
down the throat of an overly anxious tripper.  However, to the extent that
Yeast extract does help end a trip, this might very well prove a viable
option - certainly preferrable to the illegal possession of prescription
pharmaceuticals.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knew if the whole Niacin/Yeast extract
technique (?) applied equally well to the other hallucinogens (especially
psilocybin), or just to LSD.  Just wondering...I will be sure to test my
Marmite hypothesis on my trip to Amsterdam this weekend should I have
occassion to.  I'll certainly post the results.

Karl



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