The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron J. Stolaroff Reprinted with permission This Book is dedicated to the memory of Leo, with the fervent hope that the revelation of his work will help bring understanding and sanity to a confused world. May it pave the way for others to reap the benefits he worked so hard to establish.

Table of Contents Frames Version Acknowledgements Introduction to the 2nd Edition Prologue by Stan Grof Tribute to Jacob by Ann Shulgin Foreward by Albert Hofmann Introduction Early Beginnings Selection and Preparation The Individual Trip The Group Trip Materials and Doses Outcomes Finale Epilogue by Sasha Shulgin More photos Appendix I Personal Accounts Appendix II Tributes to Leo Zeff Appendix III Resources Publisher's Credits

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

I wish to express my thanks to a number of persons who helped to make this book possible.

First, I wish to thank Leo, wherever he may be, for his devoted interest, skill and determination in carrying out this very important work under stressful conditions, guided by his faith and confidence in the value of what he was doing. My wife Jean and I are most grateful for the patience and care that he took to communicate to us his knowledge and experience.

I am also grateful to those who participated in Leo's program, making this work possible, and particularly to those who shared in detail the experiences that they underwent and the results that followed. I also thank Leo's family and supporters who aided him in carrying out his work.

I wish to thank Ann and Sasha Shulgin for pointing out to me the importance of getting Jacob's efforts recorded.

My thanks to Terence McKenna for permission to use his title for this book.

I am extremely indebted to Rick Doblin, Sylvia Thyssen, Brandy Doyle and MAPS for their assistance in the editing and completion of the manuscript, and for taking the steps to have the manuscript published.

I wish to thank my wife Jean for her assistance and loving support throughout all stages of this project, from the initial interviews to the completion of the final manuscript.

INTRODUCTION TO THE SECOND EDITION

THE SECRET CHIEF was published seven years ago, and has now been sold out. Reprinting a new edition provides the opportunity to make some fresh observations, as well as report new progress in the utilization of psychedelic substances. Moreover, the passage of time permits a new development: The Secret Chief no longer needs to be kept secret!

While doing his important work, which our government held to be illegal, Leo lived constantly under the possibility of being discovered and prosecuted as a criminal. Many of those close to Leo who supported his work also lived under the threat of exposure. Even family members feared harassment or investigation. Leo died over seventeen years ago, and the threat to his supporters and companions has evaporated. His family members no longer object to the revealing of his name, and share in the belief that it is time for Leo to receive the acknowledgement he deserves. So we are pleased to present Leo Zeff, Ph.D., the Secret Chief! In this edition, we include photographs of Leo and new accounts written by his son and daughter, as well as new reports taken from interviews with his clients.

Since the last edition, we have new reasons to hope that the healing techniques Leo pioneered may reach more people. Most promising is the action of the FDA in approving three projects investigating the efficacy of psychedelics as tools for therapy, the first such action in over thirty years. In addition, a number of new, informative books help clear up widespread misunderstanding of the nature and potential of psychedelics.

It has now been 24 years since my wife Jean and I interviewed Leo. What a marvelous experience this was for the both of us! Leo was a remarkable friend, full of life and wisdom and good cheer. It was a true joy to spend many hours with him as he reviewed his work with us. Turning my attention to once again consider his contribution, I feel a deep emptiness in his absence. And yet as I look over what he shared, I cannot help but be immensely grateful for his outstanding contribution.

Still, I am saddened at how a most priceless gift, the psychedelic substances, especially in the hands of Leo and others like him, has been completely denigrated by our government. The enormous potential for healing, for self-discovery, and for communion with the Divine has been prohibited. Those who would pursue such valuable goals can do so only by becoming criminals, as our current laws forbid possession of such substances.

But there is hope. There is a deepening spirituality growing in our nation, and spirituality is a powerful aid to healing. Many extremely worthwhile books are appearing. Some of these pertaining specifically to how psychedelics can help have been added to the "Resources" section at the end of this book. And as mentioned above, the FDA has approved three projects authorizing research with psychedelic substances to evaluate their effectiveness for therapy. One project involves the application of psilocybin in the treatment of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Another is employing MDMA in the treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and a third employs psilocybin administered to advanced cancer patients to relieve anxiety, pain and fear of death. These projects have evolved as a result of anecdotal evidence from underground therapists and users, as well as from previous psychedelic research from thirty years ago. Successful outcomes from these three projects could well open the door to more extensive research.

In the meantime, it would be most helpful if government officials and the public were better informed of the remarkable potential that psychedelics hold for healing, learning, self-development, and authentic spiritual understanding. In general, the DEA and government agencies have feared widespread abuse and damage from such substances. It is true that uninformed or misdirected use of psychedelics can be harmful. The government must certainly take some responsibility for this situation, as criminalizing these substances has prevented important knowledge for harm reduction and beneficial uses to be made available.

However, for a realistic evaluation of the risks, a number of issues should be taken into account:

1. There are large numbers of users who have learned to use psychedelics properly for their own personal gain, encompassing the range from increased enjoyment or improved functioning to the heights of spiritual development. Many knowledgeable therapists are willing to break the law rather than withhold valuable treatments with these substances from their clients.
2. A minor percent of the population are at risk of developing unhealthy relationships with psychedelics due to personality disorders or other pre-existing psychological conditions. They are often incapable of comprehending the consequences of their actions, including abusing drugs. This minority will always be a problem until we devise better ways to care for them.
3. A fairly large percent of young people live in painful circumstances, in poverty-stricken, abusive, or neglectful families. For an illustration of the drastic effects that lack of intimacy can produce, look at the work of Rene Spitz on the Internet at http://www.hofmann.org/papers/spitz/index.html. The unhappiness of such youngsters lead them to explore almost any avenue that will provide them with a period of enjoyment, regardless of the circumstances or aftermath. Prohibition, however, will not solve the problems faced by these young people. In fact, legalization would make vital information more available, and knowledgeable guides would begin to appear, which in time would reduce misuse.
4. The use of psychedelics is self-regulating in most cases. Their true purpose is to enhance growth and interior development. Used only for pleasure, or abused, the Inner Self is thwarted, which leads to unpleasant experiences and depression. Though everyone who pursues the use of psychedelics for personal growth must be prepared for the "dark night of the soul" experiences, those who seek only entertainment will lose interest in these substances. A good example comes from the book The Pursuit of Ecstasy, by Jerome Beck and Marsha Rosenbaum, which reports on a study funded by the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA). "Chapter 5 -- Limits to Use: Why People Moderate or Quit Ecstasy," covers a number of factors why people reduce or drop their use of Ecstasy (MDMA) over time, based on a large sample of interviews conducted with a broad spectrum of users.

It must be recognized that despite the action of our government to make psychedelic substances illegal, huge numbers of people have found psychedelics so useful that they are willing to break the law in order to use them. It is hoped that such users can obtain valuable information from this book that will reduce abuse and promote true healing, growth and wisdom. The combination of successful research results and the growth in public recognition of the vital role of psychedelics in healing and personal development, should ultimately restore these enormously valuable tools to our society. Then the dedicated pioneering work of Leo Zeff will be fully recognized and appreciated.

PROLOGUE

After the publication of the first clinical paper on LSD by Walter A. Stoll in 1947, Albert Hofmann's serendipitous discovery of the psychedelic effects of LSD became practically an overnight sensation in the world of science. Never before had a single substance held so much promise in such a wide variety of fields of interest.

For neuropharmacologists and neurophysiologists, the discovery of LSD meant the beginning of a golden era of research that could solve many puzzles concerning the intricate biochemical interactions underlying the functioning of the brain.

Experimental psychiatrists saw this substance as a unique means for creating a laboratory model for naturally occurring psychoses, particularly schizophrenia. They hoped that it could provide unparalleled insights into the nature of these mysterious disorders and open new avenues for their treatment.

LSD was also highly recommended as a unique teaching device that would make it possible for clinical psychiatrists and psychologists to spend a few hours in the world of their patients and as a result of it to understand them better, be able to communicate with them more effectively, and improve their ability to help them.

Early experiments with LSD revealed its unique potential as a powerful tool offering the possibility of deepening and accelerating the psychotherapeutic process, as well as extending the range of applicability of psychotherapy to categories of patients that previously had been difficult to reach such as alcoholics, narcotic drug addicts, and criminal recidivists.

Particularly valuable and promising were the early efforts to use LSD psychotherapy with terminal cancer patients. These studies showed that LSD was able to relieve severe pain, often even in those patients who had not responded to medication with narcotics. In a large percentage of these patients, it was also possible to alleviate or even eliminate the fear of death, increase the quality of their lives during the remaining days, and positively transform the experience of dying. For the historians and critics of art, the LSD experiments provided extraordinary new insights into the psychology and psychopathology of art, particularly various modern movements as well as paintings and sculptures of native cultures.

The spiritual experiences frequently observed in LSD sessions offered a radically new understanding of a wide variety of phenomena from the world of religion, including shamanism, the rites of passage, the ancient mysteries of death and rebirth, the Eastern spiritual philosophies, and the mystical traditions of the world.

LSD research seemed to be well on its way to fulfilling all the above promises and expectations when it was suddenly interrupted by unsupervised mass experimentation of the young generation and the ensuing repressive measures of a legal, administrative, and political nature. However, the problems associated with this development, blown out of proportion by sensation-hunting journalists, were not the only reason why LSD and other psychedelics were rejected by the Euro-American culture. An important contributing factor was also the attitude of technologized societies toward non-ordinary states of consciousness.

All ancient and pre-industrial societies held these states in high esteem and they devoted much time and energy trying to develop safe and effective ways of inducing them. Members of these social groups had the opportunity to repeatedly experience non-ordinary states in a variety of sacred and secular contexts. Because of their capacity to provide experiential access to the numinous dimensions of existence and to the world of archetypal realms and beings, non-ordinary states represented the main vehicle of the ritual and spiritual life of the pre-industrial era.

They also played an essential role in the diagnosing and healing of various disorders and were used for cultivation of intuition and extrasensory perception. By comparison, the industrial civilization has pathologized non-ordinary states, developed effective means of suppressing them when they occur spontaneously, and has rejected or even outlawed the contexts and tools that can facilitate them.

Because of the resulting naivete and ignorance concerning non-ordinary states, Western culture was unprepared to accept and incorporate the extraordinary mind-altering properties and power of psychedelics. The sudden invasion of the Dionysian elements from the depths of the unconscious and the heights of the superconscious was too threatening for the Puritanical values of our society. In addition, the irrational and transrational nature of psychedelic experiences seriously challenged the very foundations of the world-view of Western materialistic science.

The existence and nature of these experiences could not be explained in the context of the mainstream theories and seriously undermined the metaphysical assumptions on which Western culture is built. For most psychiatrists and psychologists, psychotherapy meant disciplined discussions or free-associating on the couch.

The intense emotions and dramatic physical manifestations in psychedelic sessions appeared to them to be too close to what they were used to considering to be psychopathology. It was hard for them to imagine that such states could be healing and transformative and they did not trust the reports about the extraordinar y power of psychedelic psychotherapy. In addition, many of the phenomena occurring in psychedelic sessions could not be understood within the context of theories dominating academic thinking. The possibilities of reliving birth or episodes from embryonal life, obtaining accurate information from the collective unconscious, experiencing archetypal realities and karmic memories, or perceiving remote events in out-of-body states, were simply too fantastic to be believable for an average professional.

Yet those of us who had the chance to work with psychedelics and were willing to radically change our theoretical understanding of the psyche and practical strategy of therapy were able to see and appreciate the enormous potential of psychedelics, both as therapeutic tools and as substances of extraordinary heuristic value.

In one of my early books, I suggested that the potential significance of LSD and other psychedelics for psychiatry and psychology was comparable to the value the microscope has for biology and medicine or the telescope has for astronomy. My later experience with psychedelics only confirmed this initial impression. These substances function as unspecific amplifiers that increase the energetic niveau in the psyche and make the deep unconscious dynamics available for conscious processing. This unique property of psychedelics makes it possible to study psychological undercurrents that govern our experiences and behaviors to a depth that cannot be matched by any other methods and tools available in modern mainstream science. In addition, psychedelics offer unique opportunities for healing of emotional and psychosomatic disorders, for positive personality transformation, and consciousness evolution.

Naturally, tools of this power carry with them greater potential risks than more conservative and far less effective tools currently accepted and used by mainstream psychiatry, such as verbal psychotherapy or tranquilizing medication. However, past research has shown that these risks can be minimized through responsible use and careful control of the set and setting. The legal and administrative sanctions against psychedelics did not deter lay experimentation, but they did terminate all legitimate scientific research of these substances.

For those of us who had the privilege to explore the extraordinary potential of psychedelics, this was a tragic loss for psychiatry, psychology, and psychotherapy. These unfortunate developments wasted what was probably the single most important opportunity in the history of these disciplines. Had it been possible to avoid the unnecessary mass hysteria and continue responsible research of psychedelics, they could have become a tool that would make it possible to radically revise the theory and practice of psychiatry.

This research would have brought a new understanding of the psyche and of consciousness that could become an integral part of a comprehensive new scientific paradigm of the twenty-first century. Most of the LSD researchers grudgingly accepted the legal and political sanctions against psychedelics and reluctantly returned to mainstream therapeutic practices. A few attempted to develop non-drug methods for inducing non-ordinary states of consciousness with the experiential spectrum and healing potential comparable to psychedelics. And then there were those who, like Jacob, the "Secret Chief," refused to accept legal sanctions that they considered irrational, unjustified, or even unconstitutional.

These researchers saw the extraordinary benefits that LSD therapy offered to their clients and decided not to sacrifice the well-being of these people to scientifically unsubstantiated legislation. In addition to the therapeutic value of psychedelics, they were also aware of the entheogenic potential of these substances -- their capacity to induce profound spiritual experiences. For this reason, they understood their work with LSD to be not only therapeutic practice, but also religious activity in the best sense of the word. From this perspective, the legal sanctions against psychedelics appeared to be not only unfounded and misguided, but also represented a serious infringement of religious freedom.

Jacob painfully weighed the pros and cons and made the decision to challenge the law, continue his work with psychedelics, and assume personal responsibility for his activity. He has already passed the judgment of his "family," the friends and clients whose lives he has profoundly changed. They remember him with great love and gratitude. It remains to be seen how he will be judged by history. It is certainly wise to obey the laws if our primary concern is personal safety and comfort. However, it often happens that in retrospect, history places higher value on those individuals who violated questionable laws of their time because of foresight and high moral principles than those who had issued them for wrong reasons.

FOREWORD

Hardly any other science is as conservative and traditionbound as is medicine. Whenever a new treatment modality or an extraordinary medicine appears, in addition to interested acceptance in specialist circles there is also opposition to the novelty, which is emotional and vehement, in proportion as the innovation is significant and pioneering. Hypnosis may be cited as an example. It was denounced as dangerous charlatanism, and more than a century had to pass before it gained entry into mainstream medicine.

Today a novel group of psychoactive substances, which have come to be known under various designations -- hallucinogens, psychotomimetics, psychedelics and recently entheogens -- has evoked violent controversy in professional circles and the media. These are substances capable of profoundly affecting human consciousness. This explains the vehemence and the passion which accompany discussions of the `psychedelics,' as these materials are mostly known today, since we are talking about the veritable inner core of our humanity, our consciousness.

On the other hand, one would imagine that the psychedelics might have gained especially easy entry into medicinal practice, since we are dealing here with active principles of drugs which for millennia have played a meaningful role in archaic cultures and which even today among primigenial peoples find beneficent application in social and medicinal fields. Had we from the outset harked back to these archaic experiences, we would have been able to avoid the misuse and improper use of these extremely potent psychopharmaceuticals, and they would not now be prohibited, but would rather have become valuable medicines in the contemporary pharmacopoeia.

The substances under discussion are above all mescaline, the active agent of a Mexican cactus which the Indians call péyotl or peyote; psilocybin, the active principle of the Mexican `magic mushrooms' teonanácatl; and LSD (chemically Lysergsaure diethylamid or lysergic acid diethylamide), which is closely related to lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide, the active agent of the ancient Indian `magic drug' ololiuhqui.

All of these drugs are integrated into tribal cultures and employed as `magic medicines' in a religious-ceremonial context. Their use is in the hands of shamans or shamanesses, male or female priest-doctors, where they manifest a beneficent action. They are esteemed as sacred, and according to Indian belief, their misuse or profanation is punished by the gods with insanity or death. International research with these substances--especially in psychiatry, to investigate their use as pharmacological adjuncts to psychoanalysis and psychotherapy -- commenced shortly after the 1943 discovery of LSD, which is by far the most potent representative of the psychedelics. Besides the greatest enthusiasm in response to outstanding results with LSD and other psychedelics, scepticism also manifested itself in conservative circles, particularly those in which any pharmacological intervention in the treatment process was rejected.

This very promising use of psychedelics in psychiatry and psychology came to an untimely end midway through the sixties, when this new class of pharmaceuticals was outlawed, with the complete prohibition of their manufacture, possession and use. Accidents involving psychedelics resulting from frivolous, uncontrolled use in the drug scene were the ostensible reason for this prohibition. The principal reason for the draconian prohibitive measures, however, was the goal of attacking the youth movement, hippies and the like, who opposed the Establishment and the Vietnam War, and whose `cult-drug' was, above all, LSD.

Medicinal use of the psychedelics was prevented by the official prohibition, and further research in this field was interrupted, while consumption continued in the drug scene. This irrational situation still largely exists today (1). For therapists, the use of psychedelics became a criminal matter, for which they could face punishment.

One of the probably very few therapists who continued to use psychedelics, accepting the great risk of criminality, was the psychologist here referred to by the alias `Jacob' and dubbed the `Secret Chief'(2). Jacob had obtained mostly excellent results from his speciallydeveloped techniques in the use of psychedelics, and he realized that this therapeutic method should not be withheld from sick people. His ethical obligation as a therapist, to help people, took priority for him over obedience to a dubious official prohibition.

In the illegality of his time it was unthinkable to publish the excellent results of his therapy. It is therefore praiseworthy that today, nine years after his death, a friend has undertaken the task of publishing the details of the therapeutic methodology of this intrepid Ph.D. psychologist. The therapeutic results attained from this method constitute an important argument in the current growing discussion challenging medical circles, whether again to liberate psychedelics for psychotherapeutic practice.

INTRODUCTION

It is rare in life to meet a person so engaging, so warm, so obviously kind that your heart automatically goes out to him at first contact. Jacob was such a person. Completely unpretentious, he was tremendously enthused with life and excited about people.

Jacob died in the spring of 1988 at the age of 76, after an unusual and illustrious career. He was outstanding in his field, and made many significant contributions. Yet because of the unorthodox character of his chosen work, he was little known outside his immediate circle of friends and clients. In fact, I cannot even use his correct name, nor give you the locale of his activities. Yet if he and his work were truly known, the world would recognize that it has lost one of its most able pioneers and a man who has made a very important contribution to the field of psychology. A close and knowledgeable friend, who had the opportunity to understand him better than most, dubbed him the "Secret Chief," which is a most fitting title for this work.

It was in the spring of 1981 when my wife Jean and I met with him to have these conversations. He was already 70 years old, and retired from his very engrossing work. He was a short man, about five feet six inches tall, somewhat stocky, almost whitehaired, and hardly ever to be caught without an engaging smile. As soon as you were in his presence you knew that he was your friend, and would do anything he could for you. He was proud of his Jewish heritage, and also proud of his service in the army, where he attained the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.

Jacob was a psychologist, and one of the first to be licensed as a Ph.D. in the state in which he practiced. For many years he conducted a private practice as a Jungian therapist.

Jacob's life changed dramatically in the early 1960s, when he became acquainted with the mind-altering substances LSD and mescaline. These powerful drugs not only led him into a whole new area of self-understanding, but he found them to be enormously effective in helping his clients--so much so that he abandoned conventional therapy to pursue the study and practice of using these new substances.

Jacob made great personal progress, and at the same time learned a good deal about how to use these chemicals effectively. He developed many useful procedures and had a large following of clients wanting to take advantage of this new, powerful means of therapy. In time, Jacob not only was responsible for processing around three thousand individuals, but he shared his experience in this new art with over one hundred therapists. By the time these conversations were held, he was responsible probably more than any other individual alive for introducing individual clients and therapists to the benefits and procedures of effectively using mind-altering substances in personal growth.

My purpose in interviewing Jacob was to become familiar with the practices he had developed. There were many of us who believed that his valuable techniques should be published and made available to other researchers and for posterity. One huge, giant obstacle confronted us: Most such substances had been placed in Schedule I of the Federal government's Controlled Substances Act, making them illegal to possess. So there was considerable risk of exposure in making such information public.

Jacob agreed to transmit the information and have it on record, and we agreed that we would decide later on its disposition. When the information had been reduced to writing, Jacob decided that it was too sensitive to be published, so it was set aside. Now that he is no longer with us, and immune to whatever legal transgressions he may have committed, it becomes possible to tell his story and acknowledge the outstanding pioneering work that he accomplished.

Most of what follows is in Jacob's own words. I have done some editing for the sake of clarity, and have arranged some discussions in more logical progression. Also, appropriate fictitious names and locations have been used with an eye to our repressive drug laws. Many of the very promising substances Jacob worked with are in Schedule I, making it exceedingly difficult to research their beneficial uses (1).

The decision to use Jacob's own words took much pondering on my part. Several who have seen the initial form of this manuscript felt that Jacob's uninhibited language and looseness of expression would turn many potential readers away, and they preferred a more scholarly, professional rendition. But those who knew Jacob will delight in once more experiencing his expressions, fondly recalling past conversations and the images of this dear person they invoke. Such expressions may likely be lost on readers who never knew this man, and who could very well object to the sometimes coarse language.

But this gets to the very heart of some of the misunderstandings about psychedelics. Jacob was a man who brought new life and opportunity to many hundreds of individuals, often in total life-transforming ways. He was dearly loved. This was not because of his elegant expression or professional training. It was because he was blessed with an abundance of heart, the most necessary prerequisite for someone accompanying others into the depths of their very souls. For the unconscious mind is often terribly frightening; we have made much of its contents unconscious because we want nothing to do with it. It takes a strong heart, honesty, and a desire to learn and face one's problems in order to enter the dark areas of our suppressed inner self.

Nothing is more helpful than the presence of a kind, loving, understanding person thoroughly familiar with the dark regions of the mind--a companion who is confident of his ability to help one navigate and resolve those regions that have been an enormous burden in the past, a person who knows the wonder of being free. Whoever understands all of this certainly is not concerned about the person's modes of expression, but is only grateful for the heartfelt support.

And this Jacob expressed in abundance. A person who felt deeply, he understood that expressing such feelings is the most honest way of being oneself. It is not the choice of words, but the ability to feel deeply and genuinely express one's feelings that make one authentic, and which brings people together in true relationship. Since so many of us are afraid of our feelings, the dark side of our unconscious is replete with feelings we do not dare to feel. Once we learn how to find and express them, we can feel the delight of being fully alive by honestly expressing them. Then we deeply appreciate those who function this way.

So in submitting Jacob in his native tongue, I feel that I avoid the disservice of not fully presenting him. I very much hope that the reader, through encountering Jacob's personal expressions, can more readily discern the heart of one of the truly great persons who have lived on this earth. Yes, it's probably true that a man with a Ph.D. in psychology might have learned to speak more correctly, but once you have the privilege of being in this man's presence, who cares?

May you enjoy this introduction to our good friend and psychedelic guide par excellence, Jacob.

EARLY BEGINNINGS

Jacob: What I was hoping was that you would be able to prepare questions -- I work better in response to a stimulus rather than just talking out of my head.

Myron: How did you first get into the use of psychedelic agents?

Jacob: I think it was in 1961, something like that. One of my former patients called me and said, "Jacob, I want to see you. I want to talk to you about something." I said, "All right." She said, "I want to tell you about an experience I just had. I can't talk to anyone else about it because I don't think they'd understand it." So I said, "Sure. Come on in."

She came in and sat down and told me that she had recently had an LSD trip. She told me about her experience, and I was fascinated by it. She felt that I was the only one who could understand it because I was Jungian. I had training as a Jungian analyst and I was doing Jungian analysis at that time.

Well, I was just amazed at this experience, just flabbergasted, because, my God, here I'd been working over 30 years in various disciplines and studies and meditations and all that kind of stuff and every now and then getting a glimpse of the truth on an experiential level. Here, this gal comes in and tells me she dropped this minute quantity of material and she had a solid day of nothing but all those beautiful peak experiences that people will get out of it, and tremendous insights and many growth things and all that. I was very surprised. Didn't do anything about it, particularly. I asked her some questions, but I knew that there was nothing that you could even question about it. You just listen to it and get what she's saying. I got a contact high from her, though! (He laughs heartily.)

About three or four months later another person, a man whom I had worked with earlier, called me. He said "Jacob, I've got to talk to you. I've got to see you about something." I said, "Fine, come on in." He came in and he sat down and he told me he had just had an LSD experience. Well, he told me about his experience, and it was every bit as spectacular as the other one that I'd heard from the lady. Then I really got interested. Not only that, I wanted to find out how the hell I could get into something like that!

I decided to look into it. I had some friends here, and they were into it and knew a lot about it. I wanted to get some information about this stuff for myself. One of them had Sandoz's annotated bibliography of every article that had come out that had been printed until then, and he let me read it. There was something like 1,000 different references, all phases of psychedelics and a paragraph digest of many of the articles. I read that through from the beginning to the end and was very, very impressed because of the tremendous potential that was pointed out from the material in terms of the experience that people had from it. It was mostly LSD and psilocybin. All the tremendous great things they said about it and what came out of scientific journals.

There were only two or three references to something bad. Those mostly were because somebody gave it to somebody without telling them what it was or under the wrong circumstances. I believe one of them was when they gave it to a nurse in a hospital while she was on duty. She didn't know what was happening. She freaked out and jumped out the window, down about seven stories, something like that, and killed herself.

Then I really got serious about exploring. One of the first things I did was find out who's doing it. One of the first places I found out who was doing it was a place set up for just this purpose. I found that out because one of their staff came to give a talk to some psychologists. He talked about the LSD. I met him; that's the first time I ever met him. We had a talk, and he got to r ealize that I had a great interest in it. He's the one that told me about their place. I went down to visit them and he showed me around, told me things, and gave me the idea of the setup.

I found out other people who were working with it at that time. We had a meeting of people who were interested in it and did a lot of talking about its potentials, shared experiences that people had and all of that. Then there were a couple of other places that I went where people knew things about it. In fact I went to a meeting where Aldous Huxley spent an evening with us telling us all about it. He had a place for tripping in Mexico, a health resort. I went down there once for a trip with another therapist and her group.

When I was so interested and fascinated by it someone whom I don't remember any more said, "Jacob, why don't you try it? Find out what it's all about?" I said, "I'd love to, but I don't know where to get it or who to talk to." He said, "What're you talking about? All these people, any one of them, could give you a trip."

I knew someone who was interested in these materials. I was talking to him and asked him if he knew anyone who was willing to give me a trip. He says yes, he knew where I could get a trip and he told me about a fellow who was doing this work. This guy arranged one for me with him and his wife. So I went over there and had a trip. Didn't have much; didn't take much. I get a full trip out of 100 micrograms acid. They gave me the acid, and I took it, and -- nice circumstances, very pleasant, secure. Then I start to turn on. I lay down on a kind of divan that they have there and we played some music and as I r eally started to turn on, they started to turn on.

I remember that the first thing I said was, "Why can't it be like this always?" It was a very deep, emotional trip. He asked me to bring some things along that were important to me, and I brought my Torah. I have my own Torah in its ark. Someplace along the line he was playing Kol Nidre, I think. He laid the Torah across my chest and I immediately went into the lap of God. He and I were One. That was -- (feeling strong emotion). I can't remember all the different things. What happened was another thing I said out loud -- he copied down what I said out loud -- I use tape recordings to catch what people say -- I said, "Jacob, if ever again you are frightened you deserve the pain of the fear because you will have forgotten that God is with you and protecting you all the time."

As I was coming down I had some pictures that I brought along -- pictures of my family -- pictures of my father and my brothers and my mother. The outstanding experience there was, I looked at pictures of my father and my brothers and myself as I was a little boy -- and we all were the same person, all of us. There was no difference between us.

I looked at the picture of my mother that I had there and it came alive and I took hold of her hand and we walked through a forest glade or something like that. And I told her -- I can cry again, my God -- I told her all the different things that I'd never been able to tell her in my life. Just told her what they were! And she listened to them all, she heard them, she did not respond yet we were communicating beautifully. There were other things that happened on the trip, but now I'm going to stop and go to another point.

The space that I was in at the time that I tripped -- I was just in the beginning of the late forties -- the 50 year crisis that people have going into the second half of life. I see it more as the time when you really get into the spiritual search. I was pretty damned depressed and pretty well ridden with anxieties which are characteristic of that stage. I was dissatisfied with myself, dissatisfied with my work as an analyst. While I was aware of the value of the work I was doing, I was more acutely aware of its limitations. Having the people come in once a week -- I never did see people more often than once a week, maybe twice a week if they were in a crisis -- and talking and talking and having hit the desert space, the dead space of life where nothing's happening. And listening to them talking and talking, trying to get out of it working with dreams and all that and nothing happening, and realizing God-damn, Jacob, there's nothing you can do except wait until life comes along and gives them a big kick in the ass and they get going again. Nothing's going to happen from me except to be there to listen and to support them.

Well I was in that kind of a space myself, not knowing what to do, where to go. I could only do what I could do; I tried different solutions, but they didn't work. I read books, I read about spiritual things, about God and all that. I got value from it, but it didn't get me out of where I was, actually.

One of the things on the trip that occurred to me was, Jacob, this is the answer you've been looking for! If something like this can do this to you, then -- well, I don't know if I filled it out other than saying well, my God, this can jar people loose, this can break people through, this can do all kinds of things. Look what it's doing for you.

I decided then to explore it much more thoroughly. I wanted more trips, to have more experience, to develop it more. I had to find people who had material, that I could get them to sit with me. I remember being with -- oh, he was a physician -- he was exploring the materials, and I wanted to try grass. He said all right, come by the house here, and I'll have some grass for you and we'll turn on. Well, I was smoking cigarettes in those days. He laid out some joints for me and told me how to inhale it and hold it and all that and so I started to smoke the grass. I smoked it like cigarettes. I inhaled a big drag, held it in my lungs as long as I could and blew it out, then inhaled another one. I did that through two and a half joints, and this was good stuff.

What happened was I really freaked out. I got paranoid as hell! I was lying down on the couch there after I had finished a piece. The agony of the damned went on and on and on such as can happen. Paranoid as hell! Scared to death of everything. If the phone rang I knew it was the police coming in and there was nothing I could do but just give myself up and all that kind of stuff. It was torture! It was a horrible bummer; I had never had a bummer like that in my life until then.

Myron: Were you alone?

Jacob: No, he was there. Some place, about two to three years into it, he came by and put a dish down by me and I picked up my eye and looked at it. I didn't know what it was. I picked up my eye a couple of years later and looked at it and it was some ice cream, with a spoon. He said, "Have some ice cream, Jacob; go ahead."

I picked it up and I took a spoonful of ice cream. I never tasted such ambrosia in my life! It was the exact opposite experience of what I was having. Heavenly! I ate and ate and ate for I don't know how many years. Every bite was so beautiful! Finally I licked the spoon and I licked the bowl clean. I put i t back down, laid back on the couch, and went right back into the bummer!

It took quite a while for me to come down from it, and I did. That was my second trip. I had some other trips that were very nice. I can't remember specifically now. I did have mescaline; that was good, very spiritual, very nice. I took acid some more. Two very interesting and important experiences I had. One was with an experienced psychiatrist, let's call him Louis. Let me see if I can remember what the hell I had then. I think it was an acid trip. I remember I was smoking at that time, I was smoking a pack and a half a day, which is a lot of cigarettes. I was having problems at home with my wife, and was pretty unhappy then in my home life. On this trip I was talking -- I was coming down from it, somewhat -- and I was talking to Louis about things. He had asked me questions to get me to talk, and I was talking about Jane. I was saying something about the problems that I was having with her. I couldn't talk to her, I couldn't relate to her, she was very frightened about anything that I was doing and very paranoid about me. Very jealous, absolutely no reason of any kind at all. I used to have migraines in the early days, but more than anything else what bothered me the most was the fact that she smoked, constantly. And I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. I was telling him that. I was telling Louis, "See. I can't stand cigarette smoke." Louis looks at me and I'm sitting there with a cigarette in my hand. I say, "I'm allergic to smoke, to cigarette smoke."

He says, "You're allergic to smoke?"

I said, "Yes."

He looks at the cigarette and looks at me, and looks at the cigarette, and I look at the cigarette, too. I'm still pretty stoned. I looked and looked and looked for a long, long, time, I looked at that cigarette. Hours, just looked at it. Many things were going through my mind. Louis says to me, "Well, if you're allergic to cigarettes, are you going to stop smoking?"

After a long pause, I don't know what time it was, but I responded. I said, "That's the wrong question, Louis. The question is not, am I going to quit, the question is, have I quit?" I watched that cigarette burn down to the cork tip in my fingers, and I stuffed it out. And I've never smoked a cigarette since then. I was never able to. I had tried to stop many times, you know how you try to stop. I've never smoked a cigarette since then.

There's another incident, too, an experience in my home that I had that was a very important one. I've had migraines all my life. The earliest memory I have of myself is lying on the front porch of my house at home while they're paving the street and the tar was there as they were paving the street and bricks as they used in those days and the tar smell was making my head ache so bad. That's the earliest experience I had. About three, maybe four years old. The headaches were extremely severe and painful. Pretty bad constantly.

One day I was tripping in a group trip. I was having an ibogaine trip. Do you know ibogaine? It's a fantastic medicine, really. I think I mentioned that we use the word medicine rather than drugs.

You get the answers to all your questions on this trip, on the ibogaine trip. Everything is clearly stated, any questions you have. You go into the trip with questions if you want to. You ask the question but you don't try to answer it. The answer comes to you. This time I decided to ask Mr. Ibogaine -- we call him, the person from whom you get the answer, Mr. Ibogaine. Anyway, my question was, what is this with these headaches that I have, that I suffer from? That's all. I was really turned on and deep in a trip and the question occurred to me. Okay, ask it. "What is it with these headaches?"

The answer came. I've had a number of ibogaine trips and the answer always comes. You may not recognize it for what it is, it may be very ambiguous or somewhat like that, but you've got the answer for sure, you'd better hang onto it. The answer came back and said, "You're going to die." I looked, and I said, "What?" That's what it said. I know it said it. I looked around it, and it said I'm going to die.

You don't get frightened with an experience like that. You just take whatever's handed to you and look at it, handle it. So I looked at it, and I looked at it and I said, "Jesus Christ, what does that mean, I'm going to die? Well it means you're going to die, that's all it means." Die when? Of course I knew I'm going to die some day. I know that, that's nothing new. This isn't the kind of "You're going to die" that Mr. Ibogaine was saying.

I said, "Well, gee, this is something between me and Mr. Ibogaine. It is not something that I can tell anybody about." On the report of my trip -- we all gathered the next morning and told what happened on our trip -- on the report of my trip, I could not say anything to them about Mr. Ibogaine's saying I'm going to die, since that would scare the hell out of everybody. They wouldn't know how to take it.

I didn't know how to take it. I never did know. I kept reflecting on it for quite some time. And it was about a month later. The only relief I could ever get for migraine was codeine. And I took one helluva lot of codeine. I was certainly habituated, but not addicted because there were times I wanted to quit taking it, and I decided I was going to quit. I did quit; I quit for weeks, and I could do it! Without too much trouble. And my migraines would be easier on me even then. But then I'd get back on it again. I was taking as many as four to eight half-grain tablets of codeine every day, so that I could function without the pain.

A month after this trip I took another trip. I don't remember what the material was. It wasn't ibogaine. I was with somebody, I can't remember who it was, I don't even remember if it was a man or a woman. I took something, I think it was acid, and had my trip. As I was coming down from the trip, as most of the people liked to do and as I always wanted to do, I walked down to the water. I walked along the water, which was a very important place for me. That's where I had my greatest conversations with God. That was really a very important thing to me. I remember walking along, talking to God, and coming back up to the house. As I was coming up the hill something flashed in my mind, something that was a result of the space I was in from the trip. What flashed in my mind was a phrase.

I know that when lots of times you take an ibogaine trip you get something that's enigmatic, you don't know what it is, and later on you'll get something that fills it in. Completes the sentence is really what it does. It turns out that "You're going to die," was part of a sentence. The second part of the sentence flashed into my mind. "Unless you stop taking codeine."

I rolled that one around and rolled it around and rolled it around and looked at it. God-damn! How can I function, unless I take codeine? I just played around with it a lot. Maybe I haven't got the right message, or something like that. Then I said, "No, Jacob, don't fuck around with this stuff. You know the answer. You take it. You got the right message. Take it, just as you got it. I'm going to die unless I stop taking codeine. Okay, I got the message. That's the truth, I know that's the truth. So, what am I going to do about it? Am I going to quit taking codeine? It doesn't bother me to die. I'm going to die some day. But -- I'm not ready yet. I don't want to, right now. Am I going to quit taking codeine?"

And it flashed in my mind the answer, this statement. "Jacob, that's the wrong question. The question is not `Are you going to quit taking codeine?' The question is, `Have you quit taking codeine?'" The same thing that happened with the cigarettes. And I knew the answer. Right then and there I knew the answer. I had quit. I had quit. For a long, long time. My migraines got less and less. Occasionally they would get real strong, I would take some for a little while. But it was over with. I was over taking it as I used to. Well as you can imagine, that was a very spectacular thing in my life.

Those are personal incidents. Some of the rough times that I went through.

Then I got some other people interested. In fact, some of the people I used to work with -- I was doing groups then, too -- I was telling people about my experience and they all got excited and interested and said, "Hey! I'd like to do that!"

Fine! Somebody had said to me at one point, "Jacob, you should be doing this. You'd be a natural at this kind of thing."

I said, "Who me? I can't do that kind of thing. That'd be too big a responsibility. I wouldn't know how to handle it."

But this person whom I knew very well wanted to have a trip and I made the arrangements and I gave her a trip and she had a fabulous experience. And that was the beginning. Several people wanted to have a trip. But after a dozen or so had had a trip they were complaining because there was nobody they could talk to about it. Look, you couldn't talk to anybody about it. They wouldn't understand it, they'd think it was a terrible thing or something. So I said, "Fine, let's have a meeting at my house. Everybody who's tripped, we all get together and talk about our trip." We did that several times. They'd talk about it, we enjoyed it very much and one day somebody said, "Jacob, why don't we all take a trip together?" Somebody suggested I should be doing group trips, too.

I said, "What?" They were all clamoring about it. So I said, "Okay, we can try it once. We can all spend a weekend together and we'll have a trip."

There were ten or twelve of us. We had a little ceremony developed and plenty of preparation and security, and I stayed straight. I only let them take 50 micrograms of LSD because I didn't know what the hell was going to come from it. Well, a few of them turned on a little bit. Not very many of them did turn on. But I wasn't going to go any further that time. After it was over we talked about it and had a good time for the weekend, but not much happened.

I decided we'll do it again, only next time I will give them their base amount which I knew from their individual trip. They'd all had individual trips with me. Then we'll see what happens. We did that again about a month later and that was a fantastic experience. That began the whole program of group tripping.

There's the individual trip and the group trip. The evolvement is something I would like to be able to describe. There was so much that went on. It was all experimental, all exploring, everything that we did. We tried this, we tried that, in terms of what went on during a trip. First, I want to go into the development of the individual trip.

In the early days, whenever I had an individual trip, I always had a physician present. He would come in and see the person first and check them out. It was just a procedure that I wanted to explore and see what was necessary and what wasn't. This was mostly for my own feeling of security in case anything happened. He was present the first couple of hours of every trip. These trips were all done in my office. I had a folding bed that I put up and went through a lot of preparation with them first. I explored different things. I read everything there was about what was important to do in preparation for a trip. I tried a lot of them.

A physician worked with me a lot. He liked to work with people throughout the whole trip. I started to do that and then very gradually did less and less of it, until finally I did not work with them except at a point when they wanted me or needed me. He explored on a psychoanalytic basis. He used that model which I couldn't use. It was not my model.

It was less than a year that my doctor friend would come into the office. After that I didn't need anybody. I knew I didn't need anybody. In fact, it was better not to have him. He would try to do some work with the person which was anti what I was doing.

In the beginning I worked with the people on trips -- I can't describe what the work was right now. I helped support them in turning on. They got frightened, you know? I'd hold their hands or I'd hold them in my arms and tell them to go ahead, experience it out. I would talk to them in advance about this so that they would know that this was available.

Most of them were blissful trips, but if somebody got frightened with the transition point between one stage of consciousness and the other I would prefer to be close to them. At times I would ask what they were experiencing. If they were in pain or something like that I would ask them to describe the pain, where it was, and go into it. If it was a pain in the stomach, I would say, "Okay, now, think about opening your mouth, and going down into your mouth and describe what you see. It's dark, it's this, that, and keep on going. Describe what you see as you go down. Go all the way down, into your insides." Frequently they would burst into a beautiful world of paradise. The pain would immediately be transformed into ecstasy. Something like that would happen. I tried many different things. As they were coming down from the trip we would talk, and they would talk about where they'd been. You can't talk much, you know, until you're coming down.

Also there was physical contact. It was important in those days that they would have something to resist before they turned on. Or as they were turning on. They were having trouble turning on -- I'd tell them first that this might happen -- I would lie down on top of them, grab the edge of the bed and say, "Now what I want you to do is push against me." I want you to know, I hung on for dear life. I said, "Push harder, harder, harder!" And they did. When they succeeded in getting me off they were through to the other side! Their report of what happened as a result of that and later what they experienced was just a fascinating thing.

One of the things I had everybody do that I tripped was after or as soon as he or she could sit down and make notes of whatever he or she could recall -- write up the whole thing -- for themselves, and for me.

Myron: Did you keep copies of these reports?

Jacob: I kept a file of these reports, but some years ago, the file got thrown out. Of all the trips -- I had hundreds of them -- they would have made a good book themselves.

The screening process and the preparation process: we talked a lot. I had them go through a lot of rituals for themselves -- fasting, learn how to do some fasting. I had certain things that I had them read, spiritual literature that was very illuminating and they were able to get it.

Myron: Do you have a few favorites along those lines?

Jacob: Not any more. Not any more, I don't. I don't suggest readings any more, because the people that come to me have gone through a lot of things in terms of reading, and they're ready for something besides reading.

Myron: I'm thinking in terms of people who are just looking into this, and looking for some helpful ways to get started.

Jacob: Very little that I've come across I would recommend. Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception and Heaven and Hell, those certainly are ones. Those are the only things I found that were important. I used to give a lot of reading, but that didn't make any difference. This experience is such a very different dimension. They left it all behind very quickly. It did not help in getting them prepared. Their greatest help was their contact with me -- talking and experiencing. For the most part the people that I do now are people who make a big difference in the world, with people. They're therapists and psychiatrists, physicians, they're government people who have very high positions and great influence.

Myron: I've always had this dream that you could somehow bring this about, yet we have never succeeded at that at our Foundation (the International Foundation for Advanced Study in Menlo Park, California). Jacob: They didn't give you the chance.

Myron: I don't know; we brought a lot of stuff on ourselves. We were pretty immature.

Jacob: Of course. I look at the progress I made down through the years and the different changes that I made as a r esult of my experience -- I can't recall them all but I continually changed my procedures and my thinking about it and my ideas about what happened and what could happen; how to set situations so that you get the best possible setting and so that they could get the best possible trip. The most useful trip for them.

Some of the rough things that I went through on trips -- the roughest of all is they get paranoid and run away. That's scary as hell until they are located. They see me as the devil. No matter what I say to them the devil is trying to destroy them. If I try to get them to take some niacin, which is supposed to bring them down, that's poison. They won't touch it. No way. Or a sedative or whatever. I learned not to do that; I learned to screen better. I could sense after a while whether a person was likely to get paranoid on a trip, or violent, or something like that. And I was alone on all this.

This was such a fascinating thing to be doing! I didn't have to do much of anything at all except provide the opportunity and the material and then to see the fantastic results! The transformations that came in all of those people. It was really something. We went on, I kept on doing it, one or two a month.

SELECTION AND PREPARATION

SELECTING THE CLIENT

Myron: What would you look for when you screened? What were the characteristics that were important to avoid?

Jacob: I screened very carefully. I'll try to tell you what my screening process was. A lot of it was based upon experience. Not knowing at first who was a suitable candidate for the kind of trip I did under the circumstances I set up, I would offer to trip people who weren't suitable. As a result I had some pretty paranoid trips. That's extremely painful to go through, to stay with them until they finally come down. Even though afterwards they said it was the most fantastic experience they ever had in their life. It changed their whole life. That always happened when they had those paranoid trips. Painful experiences, weeping, listless; I was very encouraged when they could go through this. One of the things I learned about tripping very early was that we get in touch with feelings we've never been able to experience before and at a depth and a level that we've never been able to reach. That could be fear, it could be love, it could be ecstasy, it could be anything. Just as long as it's feelings--sadness, grief. Lots of times they would start to cry on a trip and cry for the longest time so deeply. To me it seemed so satisfying because they were getting something out. I liked that.

I learned to watch out for my motivations for wanting to trip somebody. To make sure that--I don't know what word would be suitable here--I use the word pure, but it's not the word I want. Clean. That I wasn't doing it for self-aggrandizement or something like that. I learned very early that I am an instrument. I do not bring this experience to anybody. I provide them with the opportunity; they have the experience. They bring their own experience to themselves, and I have the privilege of sitting with them while it's going on.

Myron: I think I've picked up an awful lot of junk sitting in sessions. I was so inexperienced and I'd never been trained as a therapist and I used to get so tired. I'm sure it was my selfinvolvement--I wanted to do something for somebody.

Jacob: To try to help them. I very soon learned that my traditional techniques of helping people in therapy do not work, they just don't work. Just leave 'em alone! They know what the hell's wrong with them or the God within them knows what's wrong with them and provides them with whatever they need which I don't know anything about and they don't even know anything about. They don't know what their real needs are. All they know is what their wants are. That's true for all of us, of course. (Laughs.) Just how you know you have a good candidate is very difficult to describe. I've tried to relate this many times. I've tried to teach. It's nothing you can teach. Only your experience will give it to you. My intuition was the most important thing, and my stomach. My stomach would respond to something that was not right. Something they would say--or just being with them, no matter what they were saying, because I couldn't trust what they were saying as being them. It isn't them, what they were saying. I would get a vague feeling of anxiety that would stay with me after I had talked to the person and certain questions, certain things that they had said would come to my mind. I would just look at them. Then I would talk to them again a time or two and see if I wanted to proceed more along the exploring. Always I told them this is exploratory until I was r eally sure I wanted to trip with them and they were really sure that they wanted to take the trip. Then we would arrange for the trip and do some preparation.

Myron: Would you describe it as you would have to feel a certain kind of bond with them?

Jacob: Yes. I would have to have that feeling that I would r eally like to trip this person. Other factors besides those subjective ones: How much work they have done on themselves in terms of their own individual growth. How long they've been working on themselves. What training they've had. What workshops they've gone to. What readings they've done. What they feel they've accomplished. How far they've gone and what their complaints were about themselves in terms of inadequacies, like, "I know all the things in my mind, but I want to get them in my heart." I can tell in getting their history if they're searching, how far they've gone, how much of it has sunk in. When I get the feeling that I'm really interested in this person, like, "Oh, boy, a trip would do just exactly what they want, what they're asking for!" Then I knew this was o.k. If I didn't get that kind of thing I wouldn't stay with them longer or I would say no, I don't think it's time yet. I had to turn down people very seldom because before they even get to me there's always a selective process going on. They are referred by somebody who knows me and has tripped with me and has worked with me. Before they even get to know who I am or get to see me this person will call me and tell me, "You know, here's so-and-so that I would like to refer to you for a trip."

I would say, "Well, tell me about the person." They would tell me a lot of things--how well you know them, do you trust the person, a lot of questions. Questions are what you want. "What do you know about the explorations that they've made already? You know that we are spiritually oriented. Are they also interested in that and oriented in that?" They know these are questions I'm going to be asking, so that the people that are referred to me are already screened by them as good candidates. It might be the spouse of somebody that has tripped, too. A boyfriend or a girlfriend of somebody or a colleague or somebody who is on the search with them.

In other words they know this person. They've already screened them. The person really wants to have a trip. They know that. They just don't know where to go or how to go and they've heard what great things have come from them, and what great things have happened to the person that is making the referral. They're close, in some way. They'd like to have that happen to them, too.

Then the referring person calls me, because no one can ever give out my name without prior clearance from me. They call me, I get all the information. I say, "Yep, it sounds okay. Tell them to call me and I'll set up an exploratory with them."

And that's what happens. Very rarely do I have to turn anybody like that down. Very rare. Although sometimes I don't have the right feeling about the person and I know that the person who referred them doesn't know much about them, r eally, but just believes they might be a good candidate. That one I would turn down.

There are these particular questions, some of them I've mentioned that I think of now that I would ask them or explore with them in terms of their state. What their expectations are. What they'd like to get from such an experience. I used to see them six, eight, ten times before I would decide. Not any more. One visit is all I need. One visit with the person for me to experience them and to get the feeling, "Yeah, this is one I really would like to trip." Or for them to get to experience me, for that's very important to them. The feeling of trust that they have in me is extremely important. How do they feel about me? When it turns out that we really make a connection, that's all there is to it, we arrange a trip. No more than that. All the circumstance surrounding the trip, that I'll be talking about some place along the line, too.

So, it's mostly based upon the experience that I've had already and it's mostly a feeling and an intuitive process which I don't see operating, I just see the results which come in my willingness to relate to a person.

Myron: Are there certain kinds of presenting problems which are a factor, like certain kinds of difficulties that a person has that make it a more difficult situation or is it more just a feel of the individual?

Jacob: You see, the point of presenting symptoms, specific problems that they want to have dealt with, doesn't come into the picture. There are no symptoms, really. They just say, "I would like to have this kind of experience because I want to grow, as so-and-so has been doing. I want to get the kind of religious experience that can come out of this thing. That's what I'm looking for."

They will come in, and I'll ask, "What do you want to take a trip for?" Then they'll tell me what's going on in their life that they're dissatisfied with, that they'd like to come to terms with, that they'd like to change. They have lots of anxieties, worried about things--they're not getting along well with their job, with their boss, with their wife, with their family, colleagues or friends or whatever or they've got complaints, presenting complaints. It's not the kind of thing that you find when somebody comes in for therapy and they give you a list of their neurotic symptoms or something like that and that they want to have changed. Sure they want change. Many of them have already gone far enough to learn that it's not the outside that needs changing, it's the inside that needs changing and this is the approach that they want to take for changing the inside. Because when you change the inside what you see outside is different.

Myron: So the people you work with would generally be far more growth-oriented than what the usual therapist works with.

Jacob: Mostly, yes. Every now and then somebody comes from some part of the country that is a person who is referred by somebody whom I've trained out there who does a lot of tripping, too.

Myron: Would it appeal to you if somebody had some unusually tough problem that they were unable to get anywhere w i th in therapy and they thought that maybe this procedure might be a breakthrough and might be helpful? Would that kind of a case interest you?

Jacob: That's a familiar thing. They say, "I've been working on this for a long time and I haven't been able to get any place with it. Maybe a trip will help me break through it." I've heard this. It could be a specific thing or it could be a general condition that they talk about.

Myron: Most people have a resistance to therapy. They don't like the idea that something's wrong with them and that they've got to go for help. In another case it might be the expense, or whatever, so usually before a lot of people will go into therapy there has to be some really tough problem. Maybe they've got colitis, or maybe they have a serious marriage problem or they know they have a very difficult relationship and maybe they've worked in therapy for a long period of time and haven't seemed to get anywhere. They seem to be really blocked.

Jacob: I see what you're saying. A number of people like that were referred to me and referred by people who know them and know their history. And I say, "Look, I can tell you about something that very possibly may help you break through on this."

Myron: To focus on this issue, maybe they're not even interested in spiritual growth but they just really have a serious problem.

Jacob: Oh, yes, that's right! I never mention the word spiritual to them unless they bring it up. I've had many people, I mean many people who've come to me who have been in analys i s for a long time. Some have been in analysis four times a week for eight to ten years continuously. They said they had gotten a lot out of it. However, there was always something that they never could get to. They have taken a trip and in one trip afterwards have said, "I got more out of that one day's experience than I did in my whole eight or ten years or whatever of psychoanalysis." I've done that numbers of times.

CLIENTS WITH PREVIOUS PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE

Here's another one that happens a lot. People will come to me who have already tripped who want to have my particular kind of way of tripping. One of them had tripped at least five hundred times on acid, others who have tripped three, four hundred times, down through the early Sixties, clear up to recent times. You know, plenty of trips their own way, who've heard about people who have tripped with me and where they got to so they want to have this kind of trip. We talk about it, and they would be good candidates so I'd say, "Sure." They would have their trip on acid. Invariably these people have said, "I've never had an acid trip before in my life! This is the first time I've ever really had an acid trip."

Myron: I'm real interested in that, because frankly I've had a lot of resistance to Tim Leary and the tremendous effort he made to make it so generally available. I feel that so much of the potential has been missed by kids using it on their own in the way they've used it. There's been a lot of self-gratification, there's been a lot of pleasure experiences and a lot of what Al Hubbard called "sharpening your wits" to reinforce "I'm right, you're wrong." I feel by and large that not too many have seen the real implications. So your experience here really interests me.

Jacob: Yeah. I would always ask them, "Did you feel that you ever got any value from your previous trips?"

They would say, "I got some great insights from it." They would say that in advance. But afterwards they would say, "No, nothing like what I got this time."

Myron: I think that's really marvelous. It says a great deal for you and your procedures. And it confirms some of my own hopes in this area. Did you keep any kind of records where you might be able to give some kind of a numerical assessment for this sort of thing? Like, how many individuals came to you who had many, many acid trips who arrived at this conclusion as a result of a single trip?

Jacob: I didn't keep any records but I can give you a fair estimate. Looking over more than 3,000 people who have tripped with me individually and in groups I would say that between five and ten percent have tripped before. That's on psychedelics, not just grass. Certainly five percent have tripped; some a little bit, some a lot. It's those who have tripped a lot--well they will all say that the trip they do with me is very different, very different.

Myron: You can say that that's just about universal?

Jacob: Yes. For those who have tripped before on acid or any of the psychedelics or psychoactive materials even, except for grass. Yeah. Once or twice a number of them--I can't recall now how many--have had very bad trips and came to me to have a trip under these circumstances. Usually where they were interrupted, and unable to get all the way through it because somebody took them off to the hospital and they were given Thorazine or some kind of shit like that. They didn't get a chance to really complete it, to go through all the bad spaces that they had to go through. They would come to me and we would trip.

Under my circumstances I helped them through their fears so that when they came out they were really reborn. That's Stan Grof 's whole model, that's a rebirth experience. Transformation is rebirth and all that.

CLIENTS IN THERAPY

Myron: Do you think you can make an estimate of how many had been in extensive therapy who as a result of a trip with you found that they had made a really profound gain compared to the therapy they had previously been in?

Jacob: Yeah. How many had been in therapy--a lot of them. Let me see if I can say how many. Eighty to eighty-five percent had been in therapy before. Some of them were currently in therapy and wanted to have this experience. I want to come back to that, so you remind me of that. Out of that eighty to eightyfive percent, whatever it is, all of them said they got much more out of their tripping.

Now, they're not putting down their therapy. In fact, this experience illuminated the insights that they got from therapy but didn't get very deeply. It validated their therapy. For many people, too -- I don't know how many, it would be hard to estimate this -- it brought them to the realization that they wasted all of their God-damned time; they didn't get a thing out of therapy. They worked hard at it, stayed long at it, many of them, labored at it, and thought there was something wrong with them. In fact, they had just gotten with the wrong person, that's all. If anybody came to me that was in therapy I first stipulated I cannot bring you this experience unless you get clearance from your therapist. There was an immediate screening process taking place. There were those who said they couldn't do that, they just didn't want to tell him about it.

I said, "That's quite a commentary on the relationship you have with your therapist. I can't do this. I will not do it. If you tell your therapist that you want to do this I need assurance that he agrees that it's okay for you to do it. I'd like for him to talk to me if he wants to." No, I stopped doing that. I didn't want to be identified.

Myron: I was going to ask you about the exposure.

Jacob: I want the therapist to know that the person I'm talking to about this has already agreed not to reveal my identity to anybody without prior clearance from me. That's the first requirement I give to anybody.

Myron: So if they went back to their therapist to get clearance they would say, "I've found somebody that's real good to take a trip with," and the therapist asks, "Who is it?" They'd have to say, "I can't tell you."

Jacob: Right away that would bust up the relationship.

Myron: I can see where a lot of therapists would really get on their high horse about that. On the other hand, were there any who got to know you and would keep the trust and even be willing to refer their patients to you?

Jacob: Most of the therapists who would do that have tripped themselves. I always warned the person who was in therapy that, "I want you to understand and realize that it's quite possible that after you've had your trip you will terminate your therapy." Invariably it happened. In a very few cases they could keep on working with the therapist. They could do that if the therapist had tripped. But you cannot trip and work with a therapist who hasn't tripped and get any value out of it. You can't relate back and forth. You can't trip as a patient and work with a therapist who has not tripped because he has not had the experience and you cannot relate to him about it. It ends up that I can only trip people who are in therapy with a therapist who understands tripping and is willing to refer.

Let me mention something about my original position when I first started out. I had the traditional psychological or psychiatric attitude towards this stuff. This is dangerous, this is bad, you shouldn't do it, and anybody who does it is crazy, and all that kind of stuff. That was my position in that regard.

There's no easy way to satori. You've got to work hard and you've got to suffer. I was like the typical Christian who didn't have much confidence in grace. Yet I knew what grace was. I did experience grace many times. I had to overcome all of those prejudices first before I could really explore honestly and openly. And of course my first trip dispelled all my doubts. My own first trip. Since then there was never any problem.

Myron: Would you care to say approximately how many therapists you have provided the experience for?

Jacob: In all categories -- psychiatrists, M.D.s, psychologists, psychiatric social workers, transactional analysis people, all the different schools that exist where people see patients whether they're licensed or unlicensed, there's quite a spread of all of them--altogether, a hundred and fifty. That's what comes to my mind. It's over a period of fifteen years since I've been really doing it.

Myron: And these are all people who would have a practice of their own where they would be counseling others.

Jacob: Right. People-helpers--that includes nurses, physical therapists, people who are very important to other people. At times I would get referrals from them.

Myron: Of the roughly 150 people-helpers you have worked with, how many are actually psychiatrists and psychologists?

Jacob: I would say about one-fourth. The others are psychiatric social workers, family counselors, professional helpers like that.

Myron: Well gosh, you've started a real significant movement here.

Jacob: (Laughs.) It extends very much around the world, really.

Myron: It's been kept very, very quiet, it seems to me.

Jacob: The selective process has helped with that. The security practices that everybody's imbued with right from the beginning. That's what's important. I've been able to function this way. Yes, it's underground, and all of that. I've been able to function this way for all of these years because I trust the people and they know about our security situation. A few people have broken security. It has happened. Nothing has come from it, of course. They've told somebody who tripped them.

SECURITY PROBLEMS

Myron: Security must have been a terrible problem. Can you say more about what it's like to work under such conditions?

Jacob: We were always security-conscious and we made everybody who came in contact with us security-conscious. Most people were able to really be ethically security-conscious and a few weren't. The few who weren't who talked about it, maybe blabbed, talked unnecessarily or identified people -- no harm has ever come from that.

You see, again, a spiritual trip is what's involved here. This I have to say -- it's the only way I know how to talk about it -- what I do and even how I do it is not up to me. I'm guided. I can't define that, I can't explain it. I know that that's true. If I wasn't supposed to be doing this, and I've said this before, I wouldn't be doing it. If God didn't want me to do it He would have stopped me a long time ago. I have a lot of faith that that's true. At the same time I keep a close eye on my integrity and my security. Everybody else's security is bound up in mine. We're all in it together.

I definitely have suffered, I have suffered considerably with fears, what I call "just in case" fears or "what if" fears. What if we're sitting there, laying there and having a trip, you know, everybody's all laid out and stoned out of their God-damned mind, their pupils are as big as saucers, and somebody knocks on the door and it's the police raiding us. I don't know how many times that's come across my mind. What if somebody died on a trip? What if -- I don't know, all the "what ifs" that I had -- what if somebody freaked out and ran down the street screaming? That happened!! Paranoia! Everybody has it, I know, and I have it! If I hadn't been doing this to be paranoid about, I'd b e doing something else to be paranoid. It's only since I've taken the Course in Miracles that I've gotten over my guilt and my fears. Many years and many times I'd be in much agony falling asleep, and wake up in the morning and have it hit me. That's true. I've looked at it and I've said, "Jacob, for Christ's sake what are you exposing yourself to all this shit for? You don't need it." Then I'd look and I'd say, "Look at the people. Look what's happening to them." I'd say, "Is it worth it? Is it worth going through all of this shit for that?" Inevitably I'd come back with "Yeah, it's worth it." Especially at the end of a weekend when I'd see what fantastic things have happened to these people. I would say clearly to myself, "Jacob, it is worth it! Whatever you have to go through. It's worth it to produce these results!"

Security has been a terrible problem. It hasn't been a problem in that sense, but like I'm describing now. What I've gone through because of fear of discovery. This is a part of security. Actually, my worst fears in every situation have been realized. I have said many, many times, whatever you are afraid of never happens. And I know that's true. And yet sometimes the exact incident that you're afraid of happening does happen. However, what you were afraid would be the consequences did not happen. So what you're afraid of didn't happen. That's happened in my life a number of times. Some of them have been in connection with psychedelics, with what I'm doing.

There are those people who know that I'm doing something. I believe they know the kind of work I'm doing and know that it's under very good control and a creative process. They don't bother me. They won't do anything to me. You'd be surprised at the different walks of life people have come from for tripping.

PREPARATION

I'll bring my analogies in here at this point. When I'm talking about a trip to a person who hasn't tripped and they want to know, "What's it like?" It's hard to describe what it's like but I have a couple of analogies that I use.

One is, imagine that you're on a stage, a very large stage, around stage, circular. You're standing in the center of the stage. Around this stage is a huge curtain, very, very high and it's closed and where the curtain comes together there's about say three feet of space, of an opening. You're standing in the middle of that stage and you're looking out through that opening. Everything you see is the totality of your experience of yourself.

What happens on a trip is by some mysterious means the curtain very gradually is pulled back. Very gradually. It's pulled back until it's pulled all the way around the back and you're given the opportunity to see everything that's been there all the time but you couldn't see it before because there was a curtain. All the different levels of experience that it's possible to have, you have. All the different truths, all the different things, you have. You experience it. Then, as you start to come down, very gradually the curtain gets pulled back around until you're all the way down.

When you're all the way down, the difference is that before, you had about three feet of space that was open to look through. You now have about fifteen feet of space. You have really expanded your awareness, which is what they call these materials, awareness-expanders.

Myron: The curtain might have even gotten a little transparent.

Jacob: Yeah, (laughs), that was what I was going to follow with. In addition to that you have a lot of memory of what you did experience before. So in a sense that's true, the curtain has become almost transparent. You don't remember everything, you don't need to remember everything. You don't need to. You remember everything you need to remember.

There's another analogy that I use, too. It's similar to that. That is, imagine a castle, a huge castle, very large. Many rooms, many turrets, many levels of it. There's only one way to get into this castle, and that's the front door. The front door is solid steel. Impregnable. You can knock on that door all you want. You can do everything you can to tear it down. You can't get it down. Every now and then you might somehow or other move it a little bit to get a glimpse of what's behind it, but that's all. There's no way, and you've tried every way possible to get into that castle. Which is yourself.

What happens on a trip is by some mysterious magic means this door is dissolved, and you have the opportunity to go in and explore that castle. Any place you want. You go in and you look around, and you find many, many wonderful places, strange places maybe, scary places and all that. You can go to the top and you can go to the bottom and you get a sense of what the totality of yourself really is like. As you come down, what happens is that the door somehow or other gets back up there. But that's all right, because you have a memory of what possibilities are there and what you've experienced. The biggest experience that it brings to you is that it connects you with feelings that you've never been connected with before. They are now open to you. Not on the level or the intensity that you had in the experience but certainly much more than they ever were before. That gives them an idea. "My God!" they say. "How soon can I have one?" (Laughter.)

Myron: God, Jacob, those are so good. I think of places where I can use those analogies myself. Do you have any objection if I use them?

Jacob: It's the greatest privilege in the world for me to be able to share them, so if they're of value to other people they're welcome to them.

Myron: One of the problems that you run into is that very often you get people who have rather powerful internal conflicts and it's really difficult for them to confront them and they'll dodge and go off in different directions. Did you ever do anything to try to encourage them to confront that sort of thing? Similar to the way you described if it manifested as a pain -- you had a beautiful technique for dealing with that. Did you have some other techniques along those lines?

Jacob: Yes, yes. Whenever I was aware of anything like that -- whenever they'd get really frightened -- I'd ask them to, "Look at what you're afraid of, just look at what you're afraid of. All you have to do is just look at it; don't do anything about it, just look at it. Just keep on looking at it and just tell me what you experience when you're looking at it." Most of the times they'll go off into some kind of a visual trip. Experience something. But they were not experiencing a specific block that you do experience consciously. It wasn't that. It was a painful fear. That's what I had them live with and stay with until it became transformed. As it did, the block was gone. I don't think we even knew what the block was. It was not a specific fear. It seemed to me at the time that it was an accumulation of all the unfaced fears that was being expressed at that time. By facing them they dissolved them -- to some degree at least.

Myron: One of the marvelous things about this is the honesty -- that once you're willing to face it, it becomes resolved. This is one of the major uses of these substances, I think.

Jacob: I use an analogy with them when we're going through preparation. You know, if you're walking along and there's someone behind you and you're worried or scared about it and you start to run, the more you run in fear from it the greater the monster becomes. Once you stop and turn around it turns out to be some little silly funny thing, and their fear disappears. There're many little anecdotes like that that I would give in preparation for trips.

PHOTOGRAPHS

One of the things I have them do for the trip is to get a bunch of pictures from a list that I give them. These pictures actually as you'll see are a history of their lives. They go back home or get them wherever they are or write for them. They get all the pictures that they can and bring them to wherever they are. Then I ask them to select the pictures in a particular manner which is really very important. I say, "Give yourself plenty of time. First let me give you the list of pictures that I want you to get." Here's the list:

1. Starting with the pictures of themselves, one at age two and one every two years thereafter through adolescence, sixteen or eighteen.
2. A picture of their mother and a picture of their father when they were young but they can still remember their mother and their father, and a recent picture of each.
3. Same thing about each of their siblings, an early one that they remember that way and a recent one of their siblings and their families if they have one.
4. A picture of a grandparent that was significant in their life.
5. A picture of any aunts, uncles, or cousins that were significant in their life.
6. If they're married, I ask them to bring some wedding pictures because wedding pictures usually have all the relatives and it gives them a chance to see them. If they don't have any pictures I'll say a picture of the woman you married either just before you married her or when you got married, an early picture. And a recent one of her or him, as the case may be.
7. If there are children, a picture of the children when they were about two years old which is when they begin to start to have a little personality of their own. And a recent one of each. And if they are married, with their families. And even if they're not married, a picture of any woman or man who has had great significance in their life. Lovers, current or past or whatever.
8. Other significant pictures.

THE INDIVIDUAL TRIP

Myron : Let's get into your procedures.

Jacob: All right. I'll start with the individual trip first, because the group trip follows the individual one. The first trip is always with LSD. I like to start at eight o'clock in the morning. I like to do it preferably in their own home, if it's convenient, secure, and nobody's going to be there, nobody's going to interrupt, and it isn't too far away for me to go to. (Laughs.) I get there maybe a half hour before that, before eight.

I set up my equipment. My equipment consists of headphones, two face masks, a cassette player and separate recorder, tapes for music, and a special cup. (Jacob shows the box he takes along with him.) I carry these along with me which is part of my ritual that I have. I talk about the transformation experience and how the cup is always a very important symbol of the transformation experience.

I have this setup with the earphones coming out of this machine. This is the way I play my music to them. Music is all on cassettes. The records scratch and they don't work very well at all. Then I have another tape recorder in there which is used to record everything that's said. I record the whole trip. I have a remote control here that I use so that I only turn it on when something's being said.

These are some of the things that I go over with them. The structure is first. Structure is a very important thing, and what structure is, is a set of agreements that I ask them to make with me. These are the things that I ask them to agree to with me:

1. They will not leave the house where we're having the trip at any time during the trip without prior clearance from me.
2. They agree that there will be no physical harm or violence to themselves or to me or to anything else in the house.
3. Reiteration of the security requirement. They agree they will not reveal to anybody else where and with whom they had this trip without prior clearance from me, ever.
4. I ask them to agree -- now if this is a woman or somebody gay -- I ask them to agree that there will be no sex taking place between us. I'll explain the background for these agreements in a minute.
5. The last one I ask them to agree is that at any time during the trip if anything is going on and I tell them to stop it, stop doing it, and I make clear, "This is under structure; it's not just a recommendation or suggestion," they agree that they will stop it. Or if I tell them to do something and I make clear it's under structure they agree that they will do it. I tell them to look at this one very, very carefully, because when they agree to that they are virtually putting their lives in my hands and the only thing they have to go on is whatever faith they have in me -- that I would never let them do anything that would be harmful to themselves, nor would I ever require anything of them that would be harmful to them. These are bills to faith. That puts them back on their faith, see.

I review it, and then I say, "Do you have any questions or qualifications or anything that you want to know about it?" When they say no, I say, "Do you agree to abide by this structure?" They say, "Yes." I say, "Thank you."

Now, the first one, not to leave the house: I don't want them wandering around without prior agreement. Sometimes when they're coming down from a trip if they want to go out and walk around because its so beautiful, fine, I'll walk with them. They ask and they check with me.

Physical harm and violence: Sometimes people are afraid they're going to be angry, they're always talking about the unexpressed anger that they've got. They're afraid that might happen so when they make that agreement they feel safe about the anger, they're not going to destroy anything or hurt anybody.

The fourth one about sex: Sometimes women get real turned on. Sexually they get really connected with their sexuality and they're scared, they don't know what to do with it so they'll tend to squelch it. I don't want them to do that. I want them to find it and hang on to it and know that they're safe, nothing's going to happen. The same thing with a gay person. If it comes up, let it come up, what the hell.

Okay. They've agreed to abide by this structure. I ask them to read this, a late 17th century prayer. It's the only thing I've ever found down through the years that really is the most suitable for beginning a trip. I ask them to read it quietly to themselves once and read it through a second time:

After this dropping ceremony I ask to see their pictures. I have them organize them according to this list, their own pictures first with the youngest on top and the oldest one on the bottom. Their youngest age and the oldest. Same with the mother and father and all the relatives if there's any chronological period of time that's involved. The last one I ask them to look at is their wife or lover currently.

Just before that I organize them all in this fashion: First the pictures of themselves, then the mother, then the father. Now, some of the other pictures will have mother and father in them, too. They may have some very significant picture show up that isn't on that list for mother, father, family, or something like that. A house that they lived in or a pet that they had, goodness knows what, maybe an army picture. Whatever really gives them an emotional charge, positive or negative. That's what I call other significant pictures. They're to pull those out to really get to cover the ground there. Sometimes they bring too many, I screen them out.

Now, once they've dropped the medicine, I say, "Let's look at your pictures." They'll show them to me, and I arrange them in the order that I want to use them, and that's it. We don't take them apart and look at them. I set the organization and have them identified into their stacks, because we'll be doing that later. Then we sit and we talk. I ask them if they've had any dreams the night before or whatever. When they have them I say, "Well tell me about it." I just want them to tell me the dream. I frequently get something out of the dream.

I explain to them, and I've already talked about this before to them but I say, "You know when you go along through the transition from one stage of consciousness to another one sometimes you run into difficulties. If you do, like if you get frightened or something like that, all you have to do is put out your hand. I'll see it, I'll be sitting right there. If not just say, `Jacob.'" Their hand's out there, and I'll go over and I'll take their hand and put it in mine. No talking, or anything like that. I just hold it nice and firm and solid. God, what they say afterwards about what happened during that holding the hand, what a tremendous experience they had. If they want me to I'll put my arms around them and hold them in my arms. I encourage them when they get frightened to stay with it, don't try to do anything about it, just let yourself be afraid. I explain to them I will be here all the time. I always have a security bucket and a package of kleenex, in case they get nauseated they've got the bucket there.

We'll sit and talk about different things until they feel themselves starting to turn on. Then, fine, I ask them to go to the bathroom and empty their bladder, then come back and lie down. Then I put their eyeshades on, the earphones on, and cover them nice and cozy and comfortable and turn on the music. I tell them that I'll check in with them after an hour to see if they're turned on. They turn on with the music. Beautiful turn-on music, too.

Myron: How do you tell if they're turned on?

Jacob: What I do is I've got a microphone, see, and I'll turn on the microphone and I'll talk. I'll say, "______ (whatever their name is), do you feel turned on yet?"

They'll say, "Oh, yes."

I'll say, "Good. Have a good trip." And I just turn off the thing and let it go.

Or they'll stop and they'll think and say, "I'm not sure."

I say, "Are you as turned on as you'd like to be?"

Sometimes they say, "No, I think I could be more turned on."

I say, "Good, I'll give you a booster."

Or they'll say, "Gee, I'm really not sure. I haven't done this before. I don't know what it is to be fully turned on."

I say, "Okay. I'll check back with you again in fifteen minutes." I don't think they are, but I want to check back anyway, because sometimes they might turn on, it takes an extra fifteen minutes. I check back with them in fifteen minutes and I say, "Are you turned on now?" They'll still be questioning. As long as they're able to question they aren't turned on enough, I'll say, "Well, I'll give you a booster."

I check with them again thirty minutes later. Most of the times they are already turned on. If not, I give them another booster. If they're not really turned on I'll keep going until I check in and they say, "Oh, yeah." Sometimes I watch them, I can tell from the way they are. I can tell they're really stoned. They're going through quite a trip.

Myron: How long do you wait for the second booster?

Jacob: Thirty minutes. Between boosters, thirty minutes between any boosters until they're really turned on. A booster would go 125 micrograms unless not a thing's happening, they feel pleasant and all that but not a thing's happening. Then I'll give them 250 micrograms. I mention to them, "Look, sometimes you get real turned on by a piece of music and it's a great experience and it ends and you're kind of disappointed. All you have to do is say, `Play it again,' and I'll play it again for you. You go right back out again." I tell them that music is the vehicle that takes you to all the different places you go on your trip. Music is the vehicle that takes you to all the different places.

Myron: Isn't silence the vehicle sometimes?

Jacob: Oh yeah. I say, "If you ever want to be quiet, have silence, let me know." Most of the time they want the music. Oh yes.

Sometimes I'll just not play anything for a while but in just a little bit they'll say, "The music's off." You've never heard music in your life, really, you'll see that you've never really heard music in your life until you've heard it on the trip. Which is true, everybody knows who's had that. I tell them, "Anytime I'm playing a piece of music that's not consonant with where you are, that's bothering you or you don't like it, just say, `Change the music,' and I will." Once in a while that happens. Most of the time with the kind of music I have they dig it all the way through.

I can tell when they're starting to come down because until that time they are absolutely still. Every now and then I've got to get down on the floor to look to make sure they're still breathing! (Laughs.) I do that as a kind of a ritual. I don't d o it because I'm scared any more. (More laughter.) When they start to come down, they start to move around, they may want to go to the bathroom. Sometimes in the middle of the trip they want to go to the bathroom. That's fine, I take them i n the bathroom and stay with them unless they want me to g o outside. I ask them before they come out to stop and look i n the mirror, the bathroom mirror. Just take a good look. They do, you know, God they report things -- whatever they saw and all that. Later. Not during this visit. I take them back, lie them down, put them back.

All right. When they have come down enough that they're able to talk but they're still hallucinating a little bit -- that may be five, six hours into the trip, around that time -- some may be a little bit earlier, some may be a little bit later, seven or eight hours -- and they're functional, they can move around, I have them get up. I've told them this is what'll happen. I have them get up and they go sit down at a table some place and we do the picture trip.

What the picture trip is, I start out with pictures of themselves. I have them in front of me. I take the first one and I hand it to them and I tell them, "Just look at it, just look at it and see what you experience. Look at it as long as you want to. When you're through looking at it, hand it back. If you have anything to say, fine. Say it. If not, you don't have to say anything." One at a time I hand them the pictures. The pictures, they don't react much to the two- to four-year-old pictures. Some time around the age of six is a very significant picture for them. That's the point in life where we lose our naturalness and we start taking on the acts of the world and behaving the way people tell us to and start squelching our own naturalness. Frequently they get to that picture and they start to cry. And cry and cry and cry. "Gee, what an unhappy face!" Or they say, "I don't know."

I'm taping everything that's being said. They'll do a lot of talking and a lot of crying. And a lot of ruminating, and remembering. This talking is very important to them later on when they go back and listen to it. It reconnects them with their whole experience. I give them the tape. After we've gone through all the pictures we just sit around. If they want to listen to music some more, fine. Listen to music. Then maybe about four o'clock in the afternoon, say, I arrange to have the babysitter come by.

I don't like to leave them alone on the day of their trip. I want to have somebody stay and spend the evening until they go to sleep or spend the night. It's got to be somebody they know, love, and trust as well as somebody who has tripped if it's at all possible. Because somebody who has tripped knows how to serve somebody who's just tripped without asking a whole bunch of stupid questions that they can't answer. Just takes care of them, and just listens to them talk if they have something to say. Or leaves them alone if they want to be alone. I tell them, "I will not leave until you say it's okay for me to leave." The person who comes as their sitter may be their wife or husband. They may not have tripped but they may be the most suitable person. I brief that person about how to take care of things.

Myron: Generally in a marriage you have the partner absent during the trip?

Jacob: Only me and the person on the trip. Unless I'm doing a couples trip, but they've already tripped individually first. Although when the other one comes in there's quite a bit of relating that goes on because this person is so transformed and has come to a new level of feeling of love about their spouse or lover or whoever it may be. Then, oh, I might fix them a little plate of some fruit, crackers or cheese or something to eat, you know some sensory thing, have a glass of wine, something like that. I stay with them and the sitter until it's okay for me to leave. I pack up my stuff and I go on home. And that's it.

I'm available for them to see or to call and I leave my number and everything. If anything comes up they want to call me about, anything at all, I tell them, "Don't hesitate at all, call me any time."

That's the individual trip.

THE GROUP TRIP

Jacob : One of the things that I've had a lot of experience with is the group trip. People get a great deal out of the group trip. It allows them to try a lot of different things, and connect with a lot of other individuals. The way we've worked it out, it lets them go through a progression of growth.

One of the most important things for a group trip is to have a nice setting. I have a very good friend in Washington, D.C., a psychiatrist who loves this work. He has a place on the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay, not too long a drive from the city. It's perfect -- a nice view of the water, lots of trees, secluded, excellent security. We've been running group trips there for a long time. I used to fly out every month until his own people got so experienced it wasn't necessary any more.

We generally have between ten and twelve people come, trippers, and three gurus who stay straight. They all arrive Friday evening around eight o'clock and they greet each other with love and joy since they haven't seen each other since the last trip they had together. They meet the new people and the new people get to meet all of them. We only have one new person a weekend unless there's too many backed up. Then we'll take two new people a weekend. There'll be some snacks set out there for them to nibble on and they'll have some wine. It's a nice occasion until they all arrive. When they've all arrived and greeted each other, then we all gather in the living room and sit around the room.

The leader makes announcements about things and all of that. Then we induct the new people, the new person or people, into the structure of the group. It's the same set of agreements except no sex takes place during the weekend. This is a very important thing. I want to tell you how important this is. I'll tell you right now, otherwise I'll forget it.

The experience evokes such a tremendous feeling of love and closeness that people love to be close and hug each other and love each other. They have love puddles where they all get together and just hug each other and love each other. When they know there's not going to be any sex nobody's worried about what might happen. They can let go to their really loving feelings without being concerned about, "Is he trying to make out?" or, "Is she wanting me to make out?" or whatever. All these crazy thoughts that occur to people. Then they just have a marvelous time. That's after they've all come down, you know. But the instruction is that no sexual activity take place at any time during the weekend.

The last one is the same as the last one I gave about the individual trip -- do what I tell you to do or stop doing what you're doing -- it's the same structure. But now it's with the group. They're being inducted and everybody else is renewing the structure for themselves. The leader presents them with the questions and asks them if they agree and they say yes. He says, "Thank you," and they say, "Thank you," and then they go on.

The next thing is that the leader may read something or talk about something that he's currently working on or something like that. Not really much more. He asks, "When you talk tonight, I want you to just talk out of your experience and tell whatever's going on in your life that you want to share with us, whatever you're hoping will happen this weekend." There's a variety of things that he mentions.

By the way, the new person has already been briefed about the whole procedure for the whole weekend so they know what to expect. Then the leader says, "Who would like to start?" Somebody raises their hand and starts talking about where they're at, what's going on, what's happened since the last time. Anything that occurs to them. We ask them to talk to the whole group, not just talk to the leaders. We don't go around the circle, because no one should feel under pressure. Whatever they want to say, and as much as they want to say is fine.

It's only when you're ready to speak that you do it. There are frequent breaks. After about four persons there's a break. They all get up and pee, drink some water, have some more nibbles or something and talk and catch up on things until we've gone all the way through everybody. That includes the three staff. We all participate; we say what's going on in our lives, what we're into. And, as I've explained it to them, each comes there as a separate link, and in this process they forge the link into a chain, by this process of sharing with each other. You learn a lot, too. You sure do. And we see how far so-and-so has gone since the last time or whatever.

It takes a number of trips before you get to trip with everybody who comes, and you don't get to trip with everybody who comes because some people come once every six months or once a year so they're tripping with different people all of the time. There's always somebody there that they know from other trips, two or three maybe. So you really get the experience of a whole bunch of people.

Then the leader talks about going to bed -- what happens is when they're ready to go to sleep, they stake out their pads where they're going to sleep. Pads with blankets. They pick places all around the house. When they're ready to go to sleep, they smoke some grass sometimes to help them to go to sleep. Whatever. It's all okay. When they want to go to sleep they go over to their pad, lie down, put the earphones on and there's music playing, going-to-sleep music, until they go to sleep. They wake up early in the morning, around 6:30, and complete their toilet. We ask them to be very quiet, not silent but quiet and reflective. If they meditate, do some meditating. Move around outside, just not a lot of unnecessary yacking. They follow that pretty well.

One at a time each person sits down at a table with me and the leader and we go over what medicine they're going to take. (The various agents available and their effects are described in Chapter 5.) We decide what they're going to take and how much. It depends upon what they're trying to achieve, what they're looking for, what they hope will happen and what kind of medicine they think they want, if they've had different ones. Frequently they know just what they want to take, and we've already got the standard dosage for that person. Fine. We put it in an envelope, until we've gotten everybody.

We all gather in the living room again and we have our dropping ceremony, which is a very nice ceremony. After everybody's dropped, they wander around, they're quiet. We ask them to still be quiet, until they feel themselves starting to turn on. Before that they've staked out tripping spaces, which may or may not be different from the sleeping spaces. If there's two people coming together as a couple we want them to trip in different parts of the house, whereas they might have slept together.

When they start to turn on, they go to their pads, lie down, put the eyeshades on and the earphones on and there's music playing already. They just lay there until they turn on. The only time we ever hear from them is when somebody feels they haven't turned on and want a booster. They'll call one of us over. Or if they have to get up and pee later on. We've got it down now so we know everybody's dosage, so we rarely have to give a booster. They lay on their pads, and we're in the kitchen sitting and talking and all that stuff and waiting, just being available.

Myron: All the time they're really in it, they're laying there listening to music?

Jacob: Right.

Myron: You don't encourage any interrelationship.

Jacob: No! We don't want anybody to talk. Sometimes, somebody when they have MDMA, Jesus Christ, you know, they want to hold hands, it's so loving and all that. That's all right. If somebody doesn't want to hold hands, they're on a different material, all they have to do is hold their hand back and everybody respects their position. The MDMA people like to get up and do some hugging and then we set them right back down. We'll all hug them, they'll call us over just for a big hug. They're so full of love, it's really fantastically beautiful.

By middle afternoon they start coming down and they start moving around. They'll go outside in the patio or just sit around in the house and they're still turned on or coming down, whatever. Later on there are some things put out on the table -- salad, some crackers and some fruit and some things for nibbles. Then when they're all down, when they're all down enough so that they're quite functional, we all gather in the living room and we have our champagne ceremony. All of this is tradition that's built up over the years. It's hard for me to trace all the different activities that we went through to get to this point. But this seems to be the most fruitful. The old timers who come back to trip with us once in a while who went through that early stuff say this is a helluva lot better way to trip.

After the champagne ceremony we have dinner. After dinner, we'll all sit around and laugh and giggle and tell jokes and have fun, or sit quietly and just observe the others that are still tripping. Or if they want to be alone they go off somewhere to keep going on their trip. The music continues so they can listen to it if they want to, until they're ready to go to bed. When they're ready to go to bed they find an empty pad and lay down. There's no staking out because they're pretty stoned. They get up in the morning oh, by 7:30 anyway. We have breakfast at nine. We ask them to be quiet again in the morning, too, because their trip is still going on even though they're not stoned.

After breakfast they all gather in the living room again. And the leader usually has a reading. I always had a reading, it's a nice thing, very appropriate, no matter what the hell you do, it's appropriate. From where they're at, everything's appropriate. They go around again and they talk about what happened.

One of the last things that's said on Friday night -- it's traditional, too -- "I want you all to now take a look at yourselves, close your eyes and look at yourself and just see what you're experiencing now, that's all. Just see what you're experiencing now." They give them about a minute to do that and then the leader says, "We'll ask you to do this again on Sunday morning." And he does. This sharing is the high point of the trip for everybody. No t only have they had their trip, they're going to have ten other people's or eleven other people's trips, too. And the feeling and the sharing and the talking out of where they are, sometimes the deep crying that comes out. Everybody is just pulled into it. And we are one. Until then we do not know what happened on anybody's trip. We don't know! That's our payoff for having been there all that time and handling it like we do.

When they're all through we have lunch and we get ready to leave. By mid-afternoon they go home. They sign up for the next one they want to come to. They are available every month.

Myron: So if you only have it once a month and you can only handle ten to twelve, probably you have a much larger group moving in and out of the group experience.

Jacob: Oh, yes! Oh, yes!

Myron: What would you say is sort of a working number?

Jacob: The active members of the group are about 40 or 50 who are coming every third or fourth month. There are about 100 who come less frequently. Something like that. You see, we have a priority list. The priority list is this. First trippers have first priority, the first time they're coming to the group. The second priority is somebody who hasn't tripped for a long time. Third priority is somebody who is in some kind of space where they really need a trip, want very much to have a trip, and we agree that it would be a good thing for them to have it, if there isn't a possibility for them to have it another way. But they don't generally want to the other way, they'd rather trip with the group anyway. And then there's another priority: we try to keep a balance between men and women.

Well, that fills the group, you see, if we get through all of those priorities.

MATERIALS AND DOSES

Myron : I'm interested in the different chemicals that you've run across. What kind of significant differences, if any, do you see among the different agents?

Jacob: We have a spectrum of materials that we use. They've been screened out. I've tried many of them, explored many of the new ones that have come out. I'll list the ones that are most suitable for a group trip as far as we're concerned. There are many more but most of them will do the same thing as these do and most of them won't do as well as these do. One of them is LSD. Everyone first has an individual trip with me which establishes their LSD dose level. Other materials we use are the Psilocybe cubensis mushroom, dried. And mescaline -- we don't use peyote. MDA. Ibogaine. Harmaline -- we call it yagé. It's the active ingredient of yagé, that's the harmaline hydrochloride.(1) MDMA, Adam(2). I have not adopted 2C-B. It just doesn't seem suitable for a group trip at all. Or DOB or the TMA series. TMA-2(3) is the one that was thought best for an experience.

Myron: I'm surprised that DOB hasn't worked well.

Jacob: We've tried it, and some of them will say, "Yeah, it was a nice trip but I get more out of ___ or I'd rather have ___." It doesn't do anything more for me than one of these others. I like to keep it down to just a few.

DIFFERENT KINDS OF TRIPS

There's the psychedelic trip and the psychoactive trip. The psychedelics are the acid, mescaline, psilocybin.